COMBAT MECHANICS! What do you like, what would you like?

Sean-Bean

Let's use this thread to try and come up with the best possible first-person melee combat experience, and the one which we'd like to see in TES VI. This is totally not because I'm working on a first-person melee-orientated game right now, it's only because I want to talk about TES VI. Obviously. 😛

So, what opinions have we got around? Which TES game did you most enjoy the first-person combat mechanics of, what would you like to see in TES VI, and what is your favourite game that had FP melee combat?

For me, the best TES game (in terms of first-person combat) has got to be Skyrim, though it's far from perfect. The two-handed approach was supposed to allow me to live all of my left-handed fantasies (we're seriously under-represented in games, y'know), but I remember the game had some sort of a bias (related to the fast-equip menu or something) towards using shields in the left hand. Disappointing!
Naturally, this means nothing from a mechanical standpoint, but the ad-hoc dual-wielding also wasn't great in other aspects - not being able to parry with a one-hander whilst dual-wielding or having a spell, for an example.
I do prefer spells being "equipped", and not linked to another key as was the case in Oblivion and before (I think), but designing an elegant, fluid control scheme with all this in mind might be harder than it would seem.

From a behind-the-scenes point-of-view, one of the biggest turn-offs of Morrowind for me, after having played through many other games, including Oblivion and Skyrim, was the hit-chance mechanic. Don't get me wrong, accuracy and chance-to-hit are a good fit for isometric RPGs (lots of them) or tactical games (like XCOM), but they don't belong in my action-RPG first-person game.

Oblivion's combat, on the other and, was exceptionally "floaty", and one could swing a sword around as if its mass was close to zero. That wasn't great. Skyrim tried to rectify this, and mostly did a good job, but it still leaves a bit to be desired.

When it comes to melee combat in other games, Mount&Blade is the hands-down winner - with its variable 4-directional attacking and parrying allowing for lots of depth and skill-dependent gameplay, especially on the multiplayer scene. However, M&B is usually played from the third person, and I'm not sure such a directional system would be intuitive enough in first person.
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic is another favourite, with a combat system designed specifically for first-person. It's not perfect either, but it's quite well done. Of course, it isn't as good as Mount&Blade's combat, but I'm really keen on having my cake and eating it too.
Dishonoured (which, like Dark Messiah, was made by Arkane Studios) pulled the melee bits off surprisingly well, with an exceptionally elegant approach to parrying. However, that game relied on stealth takedowns and assassinations and the rule of cool, and the depth of the straight-up melee combat was lacking.
Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide, which I haven't played, appears to have also done a good job with its melee combat, but I can't speak for or against it due to never having experienced it.

What opinions do you guys have? Which games do you like most, and would you like anything new in TES VI?

War

I've played Vermintide, I don't think its combat is very special. It feels very responsive though, but there's not much more than mashing the attack button. I'm not an "elite" player though so I'm probably playing it wrong.

I don't think I've played it, but Chivalry has a pretty good combat system, you push attack and then nudge the direction you want to swing, kind of like Daggerfall I guess. The attacks aren't very quick either, so you have to have some foresight in combat.

I have played Dark Messiah. It had some neat combat, up until you have full strength and the orc cleaver. After than it's basically just smashing everything in your path with little regard to blocking or kicking. Before that though, it has some very good combat. Kicking was a bit overpowered though, if you were fighting 1 v 1. A game with combat like that again would need to tone down the kicking.

Mount & Blade probably has the best combat out there, but it's not exactly as accessible/easy to use as other games, so I can't exactly see that kind of combat in Elder Scrolls. Everyone likes to bash the casual gamers, but they're out there, and they like to buy the same kind of games we do. If they find that the game takes a little too much work to get into, then they won't like the game and the devs lose sales, unfortunately.

So I'd say Mount & Blade is the best route, but it would need to be made more accessible.

Majoron

I have to say that Chivalry is the best first-person melee combat game, at least until Mordhau comes out. I haven't played Mount & Blade, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that Chivalry beats it. Minus the reverse overheads at higher level play (which have been removed in Mordhau, this is is one of the ways in which Mordhau is superior), the combat is at such a pace that you have to make every single action count. If you block too early, you get punished. If you miss an attack, you get punished. Etc. Mordhau has chambering, which means that if you mimic the attack angle and type of your opponent, the attacks cancel each other out and both players have options for follow-up. This provides a reasonable counter to feints, which Chivalry lacked. I seriously suggest you look at some Mordhau gameplay, I see it as the epitome of the medieval melee combat genre (Note, it does have archery as well). Both Chivalry and Mordhau feel like what I imagine real combat to be like, the immersion is there. (I haven't fought longsword, though I have practiced Spadone and am trained in several schools of fencing, and I have watched people who do fight longsword. Look up the SCA if you care). I don't think this level of combat is warranted in an Elder Scrolls game, though, as it's far too complex and wouldn't work with magic etc.

astro

honestly i would like a more "punishing" combat mech. like something more akin to something like the witcher 3 or Dark Souls 3, but not "as hard", just making the enemies more unforgiving and realistic, not like making them damage sponges the higher the difficulty, but have their combat flow more like they mean business, you know like they wont just run up to you and hit you every now and then, but they'll dodge attacks, parry, counter attack, look for openings or even run away if they understand its an "unwinable fight".

War

I looked at some Mordhau gameplay/combat. It looks very fluid and realistic. I think it looks really good. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that in future Elder Scrolls gameplay.

Cozy

I'm already pretty happy with Skyrim's combat mechanics tbh. If I could have any kind of upgrade I wanted, I'd want fights to feel more visceral, with better physical reactions from npcs who've been hit so it actually feels like you're slicing them with a heavy greatsword instead of bopping them with a dry noodle. Wouldn't mind dismemberment mechanics like the ones in Fallout, but I get the impression that's not really the direction Beth wants to take with TES.

Yiggy

[Dual Heavy Weapon Perk]: I wanna dual wield two handed weapons. Or at least one hand a claymore so I can keep a shield in the other hand. Either way is great. Shield and Claymore is how I play AC Vallhalla and its fun as hell. Also would not be opposed to Tower shields being added into the game. Anybody else want a dual shield moveset?

[Weapon Movesets]: More interesting movesets for all melee weapons, example, changing sword and greatsword running attacks to thrusts to make them quicker, the side heavies are Iconic though and I do like the big windup, Gives the hit 'heft' and the gravity of the blow is satisfying. It only takes a few little differences in any weapon or weapon classes moveset to make the game more interesting, a fact I learned well while playing darksouls.

McBartenstein

I hope they do something were you actually need some skill. Real time dodging and parries should be possible. It does not need to be like a souls game... but combat must be far more dynamic.